Zero Hedge - Latest Comments in Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

Scubafox — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:28:30 -0000

One should not be either a pure socialist or a pure laissez-faire economics "conservative". Both are flawed extremes. Those who think it should be one or the other have surrendered their brains to ideology. Google "Invisible Hand Drops Ball & Economics 101" to see that it's both-and, not either-or, depending on the issue. We're now so far to the laissez-faire extreme right that the system has broken down.

Of course, right-wing ideologues are so much prisoners of their own thinking that they think that the current economic failure "the market just wasn't free enough." Obama is failing because his policies (aligned with the privatized Fed) are too far to the right: money to banks with few, if any, strings attached and continuing "free trade" that generates enormous deficits. Google "Jobs & 'Trade' Data Update Apr09" to see what "free trade" anti-stimulus has done to the economy.

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

conwayland — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:04:16 -0000

Do you have a link to Rosenberg's 'rational' housing look?

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

Cooter — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:36:01 -0000

I cut firewood to heat my home growing up. I gutted mammals for food bigger than you (I assume you weight less than a feral hog). I took an oath to defend the constituion, to help fund my way though school since I was working with limited resources out of high school. Its a generic story really.

I have folks in my blood line that are self made millionaires.

Personally, I have an engineering degree and I am considering law school to move up the K-Wave.

Suck it if you don't like a fence sitters position. I find it curious that for all I contributed to the conversation, in the Kings English no less, I ended up fitting in a nice, neat, comfortable little box.

For the record, I was publicly educated, and in Arkansas I regularly had to be treated for lice through elementary school.

Regards,

Cooter

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

ZeroPower — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:21:57 -0000

Jealous of the rich are we...

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

JJ — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:17:45 -0000

What a beautiful day to be a GS put holder.

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

Guest — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:14:41 -0000

hahaha great quote!

i se there are some other interpretations on it but noice nonetheless.

http://answers.google.com/a...

i'm 34

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

JohnKing — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:08:34 -0000

I just wanna know who has the shortest soup line.

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

lizzy36 — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:52:17 -0000

“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”

Winston Churchill

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

deadhead — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:51:36 -0000

I'm happy to say that i have never seen either show (well, i did watch cramer once when he was doing the obama bashing thing several weeks ago, but only for the first 15 minutes i.e. less time than TD spends on MCC's fashion statements of the day)

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

Rich — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:38:08 -0000

I would agree that unfunded leverage is also a problem, but I fail to see how nanosecond trading by parties who never intend to take delivery or assume risk beyond their momentary trading insight or short term trade based on greek symbols actually address the concerns you raise.

Perhaps the massive computing power coupled with the geniuses already employed could be redirected to solving the real problems you highlight.

Anyway, my intention is not to be necessarily correct, but to question accepted standards as necessary.

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

Cooter — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:28:53 -0000

Realize that when Tyler (or Mish) post WallStreetPro2 YouTube rants, its a anecdotal representation of J6P. Thats why they are posted. Or, I suppose I should say, "Thats why I think they are posted." Pay close attention instead of laughing.

Realize that J6P will behave in all the ways you expect ... until ... hes unemployed, there is absolutely no job market, he/she is living on borrowed time, and begins to cut expenses to the bone to survive. Lucky folks have family to fall back on, future homeless do not. The *second to last* luxury expense to go is internet service, as its the cheapest medium for endless entertainment. It is also historically equivalent to the printing press. Tyler doesnt need a publishing house (McGraw-Hill) to reach you (the audience), the internet made him a micro publisher (in the old sense of the concept). At impressively little cost. Do not discount or overlook this quality. The *last* luxury expense to go is a cell phone.

You can be homeless, get Twitter spam on your cell phone, and know where to meet for a polit rally. I think the leadership in Iran is learning this lesson as we speak. Ask yourself, "Would the current opposition organization mechanism in Iran be allowed at all if the threat was percieved beforehand?" China plays this game much, much better. The game of life has new rules, and its least evident to those who grew up on roller scates or with red flyers, who also happen to run the world right now. Danny Hillis is more succinct in his own words (http://www.wired.com/wired/....

I often like to ask people what they think the most powerful computer in the entire world is, to see what they really say. Almost everyone gets it wrong. Your mom popped one out, and so did mine. And its wired to survive. Don't be so arrogant to assume you are somehow orders of magnitude better than some hillbilly in Kentucky because you have a high paying job and discretionary income. You didnt build your house/condo/apartment, you dont grow your own food, you dont generate your own electricity, and you dont provide your own security. I will concede not everyone has capacity to handle math (especially abstract math) or social skills required to herd cattle (most are cattle). Genes are a huge, huge player in capacity for advanced roles in society, but never think "cattle" cant gut you like a deer when threatened. This is the lesson of France a bit over 100 years ago.

If you go back and watch WallStreetPro2 again, ask yourself, "does this guy know all this sh!t because hes a finance professional?" I think not, hes probably fscked, reading the internet, starting to pay attention, and reaching basic common sense conclusions. He is one vote. He is one voice. He is also using the tools at his disposal to extress *rage*. This is a big, red flashing warning sign. He is not alone, he is an outlier who simply makes himself known.

J6P is increasingly less reliant on MSM and increasingly more reliant on micro publishers who are focused on truth rather than politburo points. To Tyler, to Mish, to Naked Capitalism, to CalculatedRisk, to MarketTicker, to TheBigPicture, to the many others, you are doing what public schools and most parents didn't, in a time of stress not seen in a generation.

In conculsion, let me remind you of the WayBackMachine (http://www.archive.org/inde.... Don't be so brazzen in wearing an asshat, your grandkids will be able to research you with no effort. Be more thoughtful in your role on forums. History is being written, and scholars of the future will frequent with great zeal the afore mentioned blogs and forums.

Cooter

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

Tex — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:23:23 -0000

Or even better:

"I find your lack of presentation skills disturbing"

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

Tex — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:15:56 -0000

I'm just picturing Geithner held up out of his seat, and being choked by the force.

"I find find your lack of faith in my policies disturbing"

No wonder he always looks so nervous!

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

Gavshire Hathaway — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:42:25 -0000

I agree with Rich that a trading mentality is a problem. What's happening in capital markets right now is not investment or resource allocation -- it is gambling. When over half of the participants in the market are placing bets based on technical analysis rather than the underlying health and outlook of a company, there is little or no reason for a market to exist.

While Rich's solution is extreme, I fully support a penalty for those that don't intend to "invest" in the companies they're speculating in. A higher short-term gains tax would reduce volatility (albeit at lower share prices), prevent manipulation/scalping of shorts, reduce unwarranted gains for traders who are otherwise completely unproductive.

This coming from someone who stands to lose a lot from a higher short-term gains tax....trading IS a problem, just as unfunded leverage, outright fraud, and lack of a competent regulatory system are problems. Particularly as the free markets would have already wiped out a majority of these traders if the government hadn't stepped in and backstopped damn near everybody. One way or another, many of these money managers who are currently trading will eventually have to be put to work doing something productive. There's simply no social or economic benefit to what they're doing now.

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

dnarby — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:30:13 -0000

I wish! Fortunately, my parents instilled a healthy disrespect for bureaucratic institutions in me, so I spent most of my time in government school reading sci-fi - Either behind my textbook or in detention. Still somehow managed to graduate in the top 3%.

However, it did have the effect of impressing upon me the practical value of being a good wrestler, as that had the effect of making the majority of physically aggressive @ssholes I went to school with think twice about pushing me or my friends around. This stuck with me throughout my life and has served me well.

And while I agree with the home schoolers in principle (that government schools are a poor choice for education), if I had kids I would enroll them at a Sudbury school.

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

FullStop — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:28:40 -0000

Let the kookiness get kookier. Read the Washington Times.

Look, if you're stating both sides are equally culpable (the Two Crime Family metaphor) and that Obama is a very effective Captain, I'm with you. But if you are claiming Obama and the Democrats are somehow more inherently iniquitous than the Republicans (if a metric for iniquity could be developed) and these last 8 years in particular, then I wholeheartedly disagree.

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

bkudla — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:20:23 -0000

Are you a farmer? Have you ever hedged your product? Has your distributor
that holds inventory look for certainty around a price? Without these risk
tools, everyone needs to hedge on what, how much and when to buy and the
farmer on how much risk does he take on ahead of his crop being sold, and
this causes prices to go up.

Hyper trading is not the problem, unfunded leverage is the problem.

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

Rich — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:02:19 -0000

That's pretty amusing.

I wondered when agriculture actually began. I didn't realize it was dependent upon the ability to trade in and out of a contract in a nanosecond. Surely if you give it some thought between executing your trades, you might realize that food will still be grown, traded and exported...very successfully.

wrt raising the price of everything traded, I expect if you thought further you would realize the cumulative costs of trading in the manner things are traded today greatly exceeds the cumulative cost of trading under a new norm. In fact trading based on today's definition of trading would screech to a halt. I believe a new set of investment valuation criteria would come into use that might actually lessen volatility and costs.

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

Guest — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:43:53 -0000

Well said.

Btw I think I finally did it. I pissed off some NY Times liberals.

The irony is that I was a Poli Sci major and leaned very far left .......15 years ago.

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

Guest — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:41:36 -0000

Oh you mean like Goldman? $889 million dolled out to Obama so they reign supreme?

I've lived in Manhattan for 12 years son. I am surrounded by Trustifarian Liberals who had Mommy and Daddy pay for their $50k a year liberal skool.

Let's get the conversation started. Read the NY Times.

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

Jolt — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:28:30 -0000

Love it when the home schoolers chime in.

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

Jolt — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:27:11 -0000

Wow. Basing your view of the world and people on commercials.

You are a beacon of light.

In the end (pun intended), nobody kisses more bank and big-company ass than "conservatives".

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

bkudla — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:24:43 -0000

And you just killed our agriculture market, and raised the price on everything traded. There is no free lunch.

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

Goldman Sachs Rules — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:10:18 -0000

According to some new reports, Goldman is expecting hyper-inflation and are atrting to pile back into real estate.

at golgmanSachsRULES.blogspot.com

and also evidence that the Drudge Report was behind "hyping" of the oil markets last year!

Re: Goldman Sachs Responds To Dark Pool Impropriety Allegations

Guest — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:57:10 -0000

Power is power. People enter politics to pursue it and once they have it they lust for more, no matter what party they are affiliated with. It is the ultimate aphrodisiac.

This is a different spin on the same B.S. as the last 8 years. But the song has flavor and the orator has a deep resonant baritone instead of a forced country twang.

When Obama the movie comes out courtesy of Ari Emmanuel, Will Smith should play the lead....but James Earl Jones should do the voice over. A Sith Lord is amongst us.